Making a Trading Plan, part 2, August 27, 2002


Buffy_04364: Money management is also called asset allocation, position sizing or size management, trade or position management or risk control

Buffy_04364: Money management is managing the position size while risk management is about managing losses and open profits

Buffy_04364: you react to risk at two level: you evaluate risk cognitively or you react to it emotionally

Buffy_04364: 4 strategies to trade successfully

snicksb1: true Buffy

Buffy_04364: 1 - How and when to get in

Buffy_04364: 2 - When to get out with a loss

Buffy_04364: 3 - When to get out with a profit

Buffy_04364: 4 - How much will you risk on any trade

Buffy_04364: you need to determine the correct time frame for your trading style and comfort zone

Buffy_04364: What are you going to do if a trade goes against you?

CJACK4: if you don't have a trading style - how do you determine the time frame

Buffy_04364: How about when more than one trade in a row has gone against you

Buffy_04364: You need a method of determining entry level and also exit levels

CJACK4: right

Buffy_04364: Some traders opt to use targets and other opt to react unemotionally to price action

Buffy_04364: The exit decision contains far more complexity then the entry decision and has much bigger impact on your final result

CJACK4: I always exit too soon

google_2: yes

google_2: "you're as good as your exits"

google_2: I'd like to expand on that

google_2: not sure when though

google_2: end of session?

Neil040: what do you think about partialing out strategies?

elroch: Seems to me they lead to greater consistency but maybe lower returns

google_2: Neil, you mean "scaling out"?

Neil040: yes

google_2: ok

elroch: Like sell half your position at a 5 point gain

google_2: Neil's question dovetails with your comments and also hits on "position sizing"

google_2: I discussed last week the fact that one needs more than 1 objective so scaling out is important ideally

Buffy_04364: many traders use that Neil others are like Jimmer and I and T Lo both can be successful

google_2: one would like to divide their position in 3 parts

google_2: 1/3 is to cover costs/commissions and any other overhead

google_2: then the other 2/3 is for 2 possible objectives

google_2: what's the benefit of that approach??

google_2: it keeps one in a potentially good trade

google_2: also teaches patience and sitting on hands

Neil040: helps the old mind set a touch

google_2: and goes hand in hand with the cliche of "letting your winners run"

Buffy_04364: other trades enter partially initially when risk is the highest and add on continuation signals like Steve

google_2: yes Buffy, agree w/that approach too

elroch: Sounds interesting

google_2: now position sizing comes into play

Neil040: I do not like the scaling in approach.. leads to averaging into losing positions

Buffy_04364: no Neil because adds should not be made unless first position is a profit

google_2: let's use "gambling in Vegas" as an example

elroch: Depends where you think the probabilities are best?

google_2: good players bet big on good hands and small on not so good ones

google_2: same w/trading

google_2: I tend to divide the day into 3 parts : morning, lunch, afternoon

google_2: morning I like to trade 2-3 contracts with a scaling out strategy

google_2: normally I'd trade 2 because picture isn't clear yet

google_2: lunch if there's a setup, I'd enter with max. of 2

google_2: and don't scale out

google_2: just same exit

google_2: since volatility is low and risk is higher

google_2: in afternoon, intraday history is on one's side

google_2: so aggressive sizing and positioning is better

google_2: now that all depends on setup of course

google_2: so to recap

google_2: position sizing depending on time of day

google_2: scaling out in 1/3 as an exit strategy

google_2: with 2 possible targets

tradethewave: google: position sizing! what about the methods should be mechanic or have systematic way?

google_2: ok....

google_2: trade,

google_2: it all depends on how far are the targets

google_2: when trading NQ

google_2: I like to get 5 points on 1st contract

google_2: then let the other 2 run if possible

elroch: Doesn't that depend a lot on the volatility on the day?

google_2: can't mechanize exits on the other 2

Buffy_04364: this would not work with jimmers 2x guys as it is not that kind of system. just a FYI

google_2: elroch, true

google_2: agree w/buffy

google_2: I have a different style than jimmer's

google_2: I like to predetermine exits

elroch: Am I alone in only exiting on a technical signal (except for initial stop)?

google_2: and also levels for entry

google_2: should I say "likely" exits

redtoptrader: no, el I'm with you....

jalemany1: fib extensions google?

google_2: jale, certainly

Buffy_04364: jimmer and I use price action to exit along with the road map the indicators are drawing

google_2: along w/other ways to determine S/R

google_2: it's all about "confluence"

google_2: these levels can be accurate for most of the time

elroch: Do you ever exit on an indicator without clear price action?

Buffy_04364: http://www.dacharts.com/archives/Retro-Trader/buffy-Suggestion%20for%20add%20contracts11.gif

Buffy_04364: this was done a while ago for add suggestions for what it is worth

x21r: that's a old one buffy

google_2: nice chart

Buffy_04364: still applies

google_2: yes

google_2: here's a situation where one wants to add

google_2: on "trend" days

Buffy_04364: any comments to the how to handle losers - one or more

google_2: market heading in 1 direction

google_2: and one is adding on continuation patterns

google_2: like 2 and 3 humps/hills/indians etc.

redtoptrader: 1st, know the average number of losers your system generates.

jalemany1: google, if you have a target at, say 1.27 fib ext. and it gets to within a point, when do you decide that is as far as it's going?

Buffy_04364: true redtop

google_2: I look for confluence

redtoptrader: can be yardstick for whether you are in sync with the market....

google_2: meaning

Buffy_04364: how much do you let a trade go against you?

google_2: more than just 1 fib target

Buffy_04364: jimmer and I are about 2pts max

redtoptrader: but I am looking for 5+ points on winners....

google_2: I live and die by the 3-4 pt. stop on nq

elroch: Yes that's all that was missing

elroch: redtoptrader: ES....2.5 points...

google_2: and whether it coincides with a major level

Buffy_04364: like if I have two small losers I feel my focus is off and will either take a break and think about my setups or allow myself one more if those losers followed my rules

google_2: yea buffy

google_2: there's no easy answer here because depends on own style

google_2: for example if I'm down big in morning

google_2: I tend to be more focused on cutting loss rather than making it for the day

google_2: although I tend to focus on setups regardless

Buffy_04364: If I take a trade that doesn't follow my rules then that is an automatic break :-)

google_2: nice rule

google_2: that goes hand in hand with the point award system

oogle_2: it's not how many pts. one got on nq or es

elroch: Good idea - would have saved me money more than once

google_2: but 1 pt. for following rules and deduct 1 if rule broken

google_2: be surprised of how well that works

Buffy_04364: and deduct if there was a setup you didn't take following your rules right?

google_2: takes focus away from money, W/L etc.

google_2: absolutely buffy, good one :-)

redtoptrader: how many points if you change the rules during the game??? {:-)

elroch: I've awarded myself -5 for that today

google_2: this method works so well

google_2: when one's focus is to ensure making more points on rules

google_2: the whole psychology and focus shifts

Buffy_04364: which is in keeping with Douglas's comment that if you start thinking about the money or what is going on with the trade exit cause the trade doesn't have your full unemotional focus

Buffy_04364: and you will start seeing what you want to see instead of what the market might be saying

Buffy_04364: nice google I like that

redtoptrader: I never add up my score until the end of day, to help me only look at the next trade...

pilgrim_7: That full unemotional focus comment is great Buffy

google_2: redtop, very nice

Buffy_04364: I know one trader who actually taped over the P/L for the day so he couldn't see it

google_2: but I keep score of the X and O on following rules/setups

Buffy_04364: just solely focused on following the rules for his system

Polytimi: what is x & o?

Buffy_04364: pluses and minuses

google_2: and the 1.25 rule I talked about last week buffy

google_2: yes, only those 2

redtoptrader: If I know how much over I am, I begin to make decisions to protect it.....

google_2: during the day

redtoptrader: If I know how much under, I start to try and make it up....

Buffy_04364: yes and that is called revenge trading and really emotional usually

google_2: what else buffy do we have

redtoptrader: very bad....at least for me.

Buffy_04364: the seven rules for profitable traders

Buffy_04364: 1 - Trading only with risk capital

Buffy_04364: 2 - Accept full responsibility for your own trades

Buffy_04364: 3 - Focus on 1 or 2 techniques that work

Buffy_04364: 4 - Properly manage your trades

Buffy_04364: 5 - Stay emotionally neutral

Buffy_04364: 6 - Trade without certainty

Buffy_04364: 7 - Keeping a trade journal which can be a marked up chart, tape recording or actual journal

google_2: nice

redtoptrader: 8 when in doubt, ask Buffy!

google_2: re #6

Buffy_04364: LOL

redtoptrader: LOL

Buffy_04364: no when in doubt get out

oogle_2: trading w/o certainty in terms of respecting the market

Orprepus: very good I would add to number 7 that is to have a written trading plan

google_2: but trading w/"confidence" is prudent

Buffy_04364: I believe it refers to waiting too long for confirmation google

Buffy_04364: and by then the trade is over depending on your style of trading

Buffy_04364: they wait for indicators to confirm when really it is price action confirmed by indicators

Orprepus: yup

Buffy_04364: again depending on the traders style

google_2: girl, that's a great line

Orprepus: good to just have one chart that is just price bars

google_2: price action first, then everything else follows and is secondary

Buffy_04364: yep totally agree

Orprepus: no candles

google_2: yes

Orprepus: PA PA PA PA PA PA

google_2: lol

CJACK4: if you had only one indicator, which would it be??

Buffy_04364: well orp I do have a couple MAs on my 3M

Buffy_04364: is that allowed?

Buffy_04364: :-)

google_2: cjack, other indices are the best indicators

Orprepus: for PA PA PA PA no

Orprepus: right combination of different markets

Buffy_04364: :-(

Buffy_04364: floor is open that is all I have

Orprepus: it is ok buffy - but I bet you really don't look at them that much

Buffy_04364: true orp

google_2: a tip on how to handle bias

elroch: If two indices disagree in trend, all I'd conclude was to doubt either trend

Orprepus: lets call indicators the crutch to how we see PA

Buffy_04364: I call indicators a roadmap saying where price MIGHT go

elroch: Indicators are a noise filter for the price graph

google_2: have a "mirror" chart

Polytimi: what is pa?

google_2: pa= price action

CJACK4: so you are saying that if you were trading the ES you would have a chart of maybe the NQ running too??

Buffy_04364: and they can warn of POSSIBLE fork in the road

google_2: help in neutralizing bias

google_2: now "mirror" charts

google_2: or inverted patterns

elroch: price action beat me today

google_2: one sees that chart in both directions at the same time

Orprepus: watch 5 items Dow, trans, compq, sox and trade the ES

google_2: helps a lot in suppressing any second guessing

google_2: good list orp

Orprepus: best trade is when they are all in synch

tradethewave: buffy , what you looking on price action : have you several pattern ?

Buffy_04364: there are various things that price should and shouldn't do

Buffy_04364: like if a range and it breaks out of the range any retracement shouldn't exceed 50% of the range

Buffy_04364: and if it breaks out of a triangle it can test the TL it broke out of but it shouldn't go back inside the triangle

google_2: my list consists of

google_2: Dow, es, nq, sox, btk

elroch: What's a mirror chart google?

google_2: elroch, chart upside down

Buffy: Ensign can do this by overlaying the same symbol on a chart and check inverted.

google: go to studies/overlay chart, type same symbol, then check "invert pattern" field

Orprepus: nice

google_2: btk = biotech

Orprepus: btk = biotech index

Orprepus: my fingers are a little slower

google_2: I believe btk will be leading in the next major cycle

google_2: so v. important to see what it's doing

alemany1: google,what time frame do you keep those on?

google_2: I'll post more examples re: "market plurality" later on

google_2: to show hi-probability setups

google_2: that was off-topic though lol

google_2: all in same TF = 3min.

jalemany1: thx

google_2: then nq I have 3m, 13m, 68, , D, W

Orprepus: from larger tf yup

google_2: es also 68m

prakso: Orprepus - why no candles ??

Orprepus: candles can be used as an indicator - just want pure PA HH HL LH LL

google_2: very nice Orp

prakso: but candles also give you the picture of price action -

Buffy_04364: yes and that is why he is saying no to them, you just want to determine trend by the highs and lows

google_2: interested in knowing how frequent some might monitor their trading plan

Orprepus: VOLD VOLDQ for momentum

Buffy_04364: it is an ever changing thing IMO

Buffy_04364: yours google

Buffy_04364: one aspect of it or another

google_2: I look at it at end of week and holidays

google_2: then monthly

Orprepus: written trading plan for everyday helps keep the focus

wesley35: so orp how do you see trend? trend of the move or major trend of the day ex. today down trend from 1 or so but we had a couple of moves up in that trend. overall trend was down but do you try to trade the little wiggles or up moves? hope makes sense google feel free to answer

Buffy_04364: that is for next days action right orp?

Polytimi: what is VOLD VOLDQ?

Orprepus: yup

Orprepus: written plan for tomorrow will be done tonight

google_2: 2 plans

google_2: 1 at night

google_2: then look over and see where were at before open

Orprepus: yup

wesley35: does your plan change each day

Orprepus: yup

google_2: we're talking 2 different things here

wesley35: what's in a plan might be confused there?

google_2: trading plan is for overall rules/goals

Buffy_04364: the one written for the next day does wesley

google_2: then daily action plan

google_2: trading plan is usually done on a monthly basis or longer

google_2: biz plan is annual

wesley35: do you have examples sounds interesting?

oogle_2: then action plan is daily

Orprepus: right written trading rules is different than daily trading plan

google_2: for the following day I call it action plan so to avoid confusion

wesley35: of each type of plan. I like that idea

Orprepus: k

google_2: I get confused easily lol

google_2: biz plan is for overall objective and business setup

jalemany1: would not a trading plan for the day give you a bias for that day? which may make it harder to follow price action.

google_2: how much capital, overhead, training plan, costs of that, etc.

wesley35: ok makes sense

google_2: then trading plan is to articulate that biz plan into the "how to"

google_2: like what style, rules, monthly objectives, performance measurements

google_2: all in my book (shameless plug)

google_2: the daily action plan is to determine what are the key S/R levels

Orprepus: price action from larger will overlap next days PA

pilgrim_7: LOL google

google_2: what's the likely price action

google_2: and yes, flexibility is required

google_2: daily action imo

Orprepus: call it the potential flow

Buffy_04364: before I forget next weeks discussion is going to be one on chapter 16 in Mark Douglas's Discipline Trader on The Steps to Success

oogle_2: is to bring one's focus into what are the important levels surrounding the current price levels

google_2: buffy, I plan on conducting a session on "exit strategies"

Buffy_04364: next week, ok np

wesley35: where do you locate that info? makes sense

wesley35: on support levels and such

Buffy_04364: didn't know

google_2: no, I'm just saying

google_2: should I schedule it the week after?

Buffy_04364: ok whenever

Buffy_04364: anything we have planned can be backed up for when you can do it

Buffy_04364: next week week after doesn't matter, which ever you want

google_2: the week after thanks

Buffy_04364: the 10th right?

Buffy_04364: ok reserved :-)

google_2: wesley many charts are posted here by other traders

Orprepus: so looking at PA of daily, 60m 30m - whatever tf you choose or all and see where price has come from and where it might next flow

google_2: that show different methods

google_2: don't want to plug my book any more today lol

Orprepus: google did you pick a title yet?

google_2: Orp, not yet

google_2: some legal and other issues need to be ironed out

google_2: I do know for instance the OH (overhead) on each trade

google_2: and that's over the commission rate

google_2: includes stationary, data feed fees, education/books/training, etc.

google_2: and that should be included in the biz plan

elroch: Mostly independent of number of trades, though

google_2: I do average out and my number of trades is usually within a range

jalemany1: do you try to get in a certain # of trades per day?

google_2: jale, no

google_2: I'm not hi velocity trader so I know I won't exceed let's say 8/day

google_2: 8 is extreme and that's usually when I know I'm in trouble for the day lol

Buffy_04364: since jimmer does around 30 a day you can see that is another difference in the two different styles also

google_2: depends on setup really

google_2: if you asked me today for example - it was a type 1 trend day - so that's 2 trades

google_2: so to recap what I mentioned re plans

google_2: 3 types

google_2: biz long term; trading medium term; action short term

google_2: ok.....

Buffy_04364: take what the market is willing to give that day for your style

Buffy_04364: using googles points at the end of the day you can tell if you did that

google_2: also broker commissions shouldn't exceed 30% of one's profits for the day

google_2: that's an important measure as well

Buffy_04364: nice guideline

elroch: Don't want the broker to get richer than you ;-)

google_2: just tells me how well did I do in terms of overtrading

google_2: it's just a game of having all these performance measurements around me to distract from thinking "money"

google_2: and once the focus is on them, then "money" issue takes a backseat

google_2: by following certain formulas/levels for each measurement

google_2: like the 1.25 I mentioned last week as an example

google_2: I suggest some of you give this a try, it worked well for me

prakso: 1.25 ??

google_2: prakso, refer to last week's transcript

google_2: buffy, anything else?

Buffy_04364: I guess we are over the hour which doesn't matter to me really but do want to say to everyone thank you for coming and hope you have gotten something out of the discussion. See you next week.

google_2: thanks buffy and everyone

Vic_927: thanks Buffy and google

Polytimi: thank you buffy and google

p_doce: tks

CJACK4: thanks everybody

jalemany1: thanks, buffy and google

pilgrim_7: great class Buffy and google

prakso: thanks Buffy - google and everyone

Orprepus: thank you for sharing google

google_2: you too Orp, v. nice insights

Buffy_04364: thanks to all who contributed and helped make it great

google_2: we seem to agree on many things :-)

Neil040: excellent both

Buffy_04364: just different styles google :-)

Buffy_04364: that is all

google_2: yes that's what makes a market I guess :-)

Buffy_04364: sure is

Orprepus: we are close but different - the key is focusing on PA

google_2: isn't PA a state?

Orprepus: which can make us all winners if we can keep out of our own way

google_2: joking here :-)

Buffy_04364: LOL

Orprepus: LOL PA

google_2: before I go

google_2: for those interested in patterns - look at today's second leg down

google_2: this is exactly like 6/25

google_2: v. important to recognize these things

google_2: ok

elroch: Excellent presentation Buffy and Google - hope it all has an effect some time

wesley35: amazing how you can recognize that google.

CJACK4: never heard of a "mirror chart"

Orprepus: Is it a random walk?

google_2: "inverted pattern"

google_2: that's to answer cjack

CJACK4: how do you invert a chart

google_2: go to studies/overlay chart - type same symbol

google_2: then check "invert pattern" field

CJACK4: ok

elroch: Why does that help, google?

google_2: it's a bias neutralizer technique

Buffy_04364: once again elroch it depends on your style

google_2: some see the short side only and some the opposite

Buffy_04364: if you start watching googles for lets say jimmer and jimmer for googles you will go nuts

google_2: but when one looks at the chart in both directions it takes away the bias

elroch: I'm naturally unbiased, I think, except I like trend changes

elroch: Might be my problem

Orprepus: trading style/method needs to meet personality

google_2: then you don't need this technique elroch

Orprepus: least need to know dominate method

Orprepus: 4 types of traders

CJACK4: I have thought that there should be some kind of written test you take that will determine the kind of trader you are, the kind of system you should use, etc.

Neil040: there must be something wrong with me because I like shorting for some reason

Orprepus: deals with how you make decisions

Buffy_04364: I guess to start you could ask yourself maybe doing playback what TF are you the least unemotional trading for starters

Orprepus: cjack you are heading down the right path - need to know you self to be able to trade

Orprepus: myers-briggs is a good one

Buffy_04364: I figured out I like short term using that way when suggested by a fellow trader

CJACK4: so why not a test that reveals your hidden trading traits and tells you which way to go???

google_2: cjack, there is

CJACK4: because emotion gets in the way you can tell yourself something like that

jalemany1: google, what is it?

Orprepus: deals with how you make decisions - what do you need to feel comfortable making a decision

google_2: I like his work

google_2: Van Tharpe for one is a provider of such things

google_2: expensive but recommended

CJACK4: you convince yourself that you are what you want to be

CJACK4: not what you really are

jalemany1: does he have a test he sells?

Buffy_04364: ask yourself are you comfortable with the number of trades, the profit, and the risk on the stops etc

Orprepus: and how fast can you take in that data to make a decision and feel relaxed

CJACK4: he sells them for big bucks to the states

google_2: yes jale

jalemany1: his books are expensive too

google_2: look at his courses lol

google_2: but I tell you very good investment imo

google_2: should be part of the biz plan btw

google_2: speaking of plans :-)

jalemany1: agree, should start out that way, not by trial and error as most do

google_2: jale why do we go to school to become doctors, lawyers?

google_2: and trade live before getting educated??

google_2: I'm one of them btw lol

google_2: well, I changed my ways and chose a different direction

elroch: Has anyone else had the recurrent problem of having mechanical systems that seem to be sound, but managing to avoid the best trades when executing them?

google_2: elroch how long have long have you papertraded it?

elroch: After a couple of days of paper profits, I can't resist trading. Today should have been a profitable day with correct execution, but I changed horses in midstream

google_2: ok now "papertrading" is all about mind conditioning

google_2: mind needs time to be conditioned

google_2: so we're talking weeks instead of days here

alcoholicavenger: I have been at this for almost 4 years and have seen SO many methods and have done exactly what u speak of. teetering around from one to the other. I even moved all the way to Chicago to find the method. I worked with three floor traders. the secret and have found the secret is WITHIN

elroch: I thought this evening was tricky, but usually my methods do well at the end of the session

google_2: why not pick 1 and stick to it?

Orprepus: when your in school and take a final you have had a whole semester to absorb the information to take the test

alcoholicavenger: well that's why I haven't succeeded. SO don't do what I have done and waste years of your lives. You will NEVER make any progress. Well now I work at the cme and have found a backer to put up money so I can trade.

alcoholicavenger: I am working on jimmers system because I find I like to trade and his will provide that. I don't have high execution costs but I have also found I don't think I want to scalp like the floor traders do

elroch: I think Jimmer's system is rather complicated for me - having to balance the info from several different indicators and time frames is a bit confusing for me

Orprepus: 'and they make money without one chart

alcoholicavenger: it really is all about finding your personality in trading and STICKING to it

Buffy_04364: doing jimmers with the trend simplifies it when starting

alcoholicavenger: my problem is .. the trend - but I will get that also

alcoholicavenger: anyway.. my whole point is.. find your personality and stick to it

alcoholicavenger: or your gonna waste alot of time and have so many head and heartaches its no fun

alcoholicavenger: luckily I'm still young but this hasn't been easy by any means

jalemany1: that is why I was asking about Van Tharp, it sure costs a lot to learn by trial and error. ( mostly error )

alcoholicavenger: we all owe a big thanks to people like.. jimmer .. buffy, and woodie

jalemany1: agree

alcoholicavenger: because.. just because there are people out there that charge u money..

p_doce: and google

alcoholicavenger: all of them!

alcoholicavenger: u can spend money on a person .. and MOST those people charging.. I would think.. DON'T make money

alcoholicavenger: but even if u find a legit person it doesn't mean u will

alcoholicavenger: so thanks to all of u that are so giving.. I haven't seen this in many years.. so its cool all the traders are helping one another instead of being so secretive.. because I'm telling u.. the secret is within

google_2: if you ask me trading is about "psychological" development and not technical one

elroch: I have a great deal of admiration for those who have managed to overcome all of the obstacles and successfully trade consistently

alcoholicavenger: I totally agree Google.. I think a person will learn so much about themselves more then in any aspect in life

google_2: people keep searching for the latest technical thing out there

google_2: and don't search for what would make them stronger mentally/emotionally

Buffy_04364: the holy grail is yourself

alcoholicavenger: there u go

elroch: It almost seems to me that I have a self destruct instinct sometimes when I trade

alcoholicavenger: there is a holy grail out there. IS YOU!

jalemany1: as Larry Pesavento says....defy human nature...do the work yourself. I think that is the secret

elroch: All I want is a small edge and the presence of mind to trade it consistently

Buffy_04364: as jimmer put it most lack the discipline to be in the top 10%

Orprepus: agree google - trading is 90% you and 10% method

google_2: let me give you an edge right now ready?

Buffy_04364: sure

google_2: what if I told you one can make money just trading 2humps and 3 humps and I'm v. serious

google_2: would you ridicule that suggestion or take me up on it?

google_2: on one condition - no humps = no trades

alcoholicavenger: I agree with u 1000% I know a trader that trades.. a MA system and retired He had the discipline to trade it.. when it said.. GO and when it didn't, he would sit there all day and wouldn't do anything. That's all there is to it. DISCIPLINE

google_2: dbl humps and 3 humps are the easiest and >90% reliable

google_2: problem is we see so many waves in the ocean and want to surf each one of them as my mentor put it

zxcvbn2002: google: what are humps?

elroch: I believe you google, as I believe you can trade one indicator with a mechanical SAR strategy.

google_2: hills/indians

google_2: buffy or others, what's another name for humps? lol

google_2: like 2 triangles then a break of trendline touching their pivots

jalemany1: 3 drives to a top

elroch: I found a great system somewhere that was simply to trade when a certain 3 EMAs were heading in the same direction. That's all.

Buffy_04364: why didn't you stay with it elroch is great system

Orprepus: but still need the mind set to trade it

Buffy_04364: so true orp and that will not be found by switching systems

google_2: no grasshopping

hark33: How do we define humps?

google_2: do you have Linda Raschke's book "street smarts"?

google_2: 3 little indians pattern there

google_2: I can post some charts showing 3 humps and 2 humps if that helps

Buffy_04364: look under patterns in archives

Orprepus: right isn't in dacharts already

google_2: yes

jalemany1: I think the problem for most people who have traded for a while is that the losses they took learning to trade are a huge mental handicap. If you could erase that from your subconscious, with what you have learned, trading would not be so hard.

Orprepus: http://www.dacharts.com/archives/Pattern_Recognition/3_Little_Indians_Hills/

Orprepus: that's the link

Buffy_04364: if you can't follow your mental stop need to use hard stops

wesley35: google seems to me this is like selling the tops and buying the bottoms on those tl breaks but your looking for the humps?

pop_t_1: 2 point stop every time

google_2: wesley can't take them n the direction of trend or yes in consolidation days they work well