Buffy_04364: for a discussion on your trading plan and ideas on what you might include

Buffy_04364: the first one I would like to start out with is goals

Buffy_04364: now a goal of 100,000 bucks a year is not realistic when you are starting out

Buffy_04364: my very first goal was to have winning days

Buffy_04364: then it was modified to have winning days without owing the broker

Buffy_04364: I was scalping back then and doing many trades a day

Buffy_04364: then when that goal was reached I figured out what I needed to make a day

Buffy_04364: by adding up yearly expense and dividing by 12 and dividing by 22 - the avg number of trading days in a month

Buffy_04364: many of you would be surprised at how few pts a day this might be

Buffy_04364: it has progressed from that point but that is how I started out

Buffy_04364: with mine

Buffy_04364: On 8/10 I sent out an email to the yahoo emini group that had many links for other ideas on how to write up your goals when you are starting out

Buffy_04364: there were a lot of links in that email for reference

Buffy_04364: no one has any input here for other ideas on what might be a good goal for a beginner?

Lightfoot500: Bummer

Buffy_04364: LBR's trading plan also includes the physical

elroch: I have the advantage that spread betting on indices allows much smaller stakes than e-minis

pmtrader: ditto elroch

p_8: my first goal was to make lot's of money, then gave up when that didn't happen, and decide to have winning days, then gave up when had too many losing days. Finally, decided that my goal is to have as many days as possible in which I stick to my trading rule.

p_8: and that's have been the daily goal since then

redtoptrader: I used the same method as you Buffy....great minds.....

p_8: elroch: My plan was to try to consistently win without risking a substantial amount of money, then when I'd convinced myself, gradually increase the stakes. Still at stage 1

redtoptrader: LOL

Lightfoot500: How much of your capital do you work with at any given time Buffy, All or nothing or a certain percentage to set a cap on drawdown or losses?

Lightfoot500: ok

jimmer49: I traded sparingly at first, instead concentrating on experimenting until I had an approach that I felt I could use with confidence. Then traded more and began to set daily goals in terms of not missing opportunities, rather than number of points. Every opportunity that I missed I made myself write the reason why I missed it. The reasons usually looked very lame and gradually I began to miss fewer and fewer.

Brad26268: Buffy, you said we would be surprised to see how few points it takes per day to cover overhead, I think, just curious what that number was?

pmtrader: my primary goal is consistency - not to be confused with lack of losses but over time

pmtrader: I've found consistency but the wrong kind!!!

elroch: I'd be happy with very small consistent gains, better than large but less consistent ones

Brad26268: How long trading jimmer49?

jimmer49: Futures about 1 1/2 years

Buffy_04364: It wasn't very many brad 2pts I think - with just me my overhead is low

pilgrim_7: still working on a trading plan

Brad26268: sounds like you are very focused

Brad26268: Jimmer49- are you consistently profitable now?

p_8: agree jimmer, I guess the goal at first is first to have a good approach/system, then to trade the approach consistently and not miss any opportunities signaled by the system

pmtrader: I started with the pts per day calculation and have been trying to back into a technique with positive expectancy

jimmer49: yes, I almost never have a losing day

elroch: I work normal hours then trade in the evening (GMT) at present. Leaves me rather tired but less poor (considering my current record)

pmtrader: positive

tradethewave: jimmer49, are you trade 1 trade setup or more?

Brad26268: I have found an approach and system that works well for me, and only time I usually lose money is when I listen to the "experts" and fade what I see.

pmtrader: it's amazing how hard 2-4pts worth of consistency can be

jimmer49: a number of them

jimmer49: my trading plan is published

jimmer49: on dacharts

jimmer49: for setups that is

Buffy_04364: we will get into the trading plan but would like to point out LBR's ideas on physical plan

Buffy_04364: she feels you should have "what makes you feel good" to trade

tradethewave: yes jimmer...

Brad26268: Thanks jimmer!

Buffy_04364: do you like to exercise before the market or after the market to unwind

Buffy_04364: do you get enough sleep

Brad26268: what is sleep?

Buffy_04364: do you like a neat desk and it bothers you if it isn't

Buffy_04364: many floor traders have a favorite tie or shirt

Buffy_04364: that makes them feel good

Buffy_04364: do you?

elroch: Red braces are essential

Buffy_04364: is your chair uncomfortable? Your computer setup?

Buffy_04364: do you trade better on sunny days or cloudy days?

radethewave: lol

Buffy_04364: I was amazed at the ?s she came up with but in thinking it over it is true

Buffy_04364: sunny days, neat desk and the light on if cloudy are what works for me

Buffy_04364: it is an aspect of trading I hadn't thought of until LBR's discussion of a trading plan last Dec.

uffy_04364: another ? to ask yourself is what type of market are you comfortable in?

Vic_926: I have one computer for my trading platform , with nothing else on it , this gives me the peace of mind that it will not freeze up due to other stuff I am doing charts , PalTalk, emails etc

radethewave: www.mrci.com/lbr

Brad26268: www.lbrcapital.com

Buffy_04364: basically it is taking care of yourself physically

zenstar: 2 computer, 1 DSL, 1 Cable, 2 brokers - and still somedays both go down

Buffy_04364: Douglas in one of his books, says something like Ask yourself if you are willing to pay yourself today?" If not a resounding yes, then don't trade

Buffy_04364: I know I can not trade if I don't feel well

Brad26268: Wonder how many in here are consistently profitable traders, i.e. supporting self doing this for a living?

p_8: I'd like to add. Try to trade one instrument only (either ES only or NQ only) and stick to one setup only, especially in the beginning.

Buffy_04364: pretty hard to concentrate on trading with stomach doing flip flops or head pounding from a headache

google_2: brad, not too many

google_2: p8, nice

google_2: I like that

Buffy_04364: yes many good ideas have been typed in by all

CJACK4: but finding the right setup is tough

zenstar: Buffy - good points

esseh: http://www.lbrcapital.com/

p_8: agree with buffy, when got emotional, walk around, get some drink, think happy thoughts :-)

zenstar: thanks esseh!

Buffy_04364: Some traders have determined their focus time as they put it and set a timer for it

esseh: np

Buffy_04364: to remind them this is about when they start missing things and time for a break

elroch: There's a problem before your successful, that constant change seems to be needed. How does one cope with that? How did those who have been through that do so?

Buffy_04364: this can be determined by going over your trades to see if you have a limit also to maintain total focus Buffy_04364: I know mine is an hour to 1 1/2 hrs

Brad26268: hardest lesson I have learned is do not overtrade. In beginning, if I lost money on a trade I was in to big of a hurry to jump back in and earn it back- and it does not work that way, at least for me.

elroch: Good point

irod29: do some here have a $ goal for the day? or point goal?

pmtrader: I've lost more trying to "win it back" then I ever expected to make in the first place!!

Brad26268: Amen

Buffy_04364: elroch what are you referring to when you say constant change

elroch: I picked 5 points out of the blue (in an evening session).

circe55: elroch, the cliche is perhaps the answer: perseverance and never give up

Buffy_04364: that is called revenge trading brad and yes it does cloud your focus on the market

Brad26268: I find that if you have a specific $ goal you might force trades. Better to just wait for the specific setup that works, and trade it.

elroch: I mean when it seems the system you are using doesn't work, you need to change something (unless it's just execution that's the problem)

irod29: good point Brad

zenstar: Brad - done my share of overtrading. Broker made a killing!

Brad26268: Sometimes I see 5 in a day, sometimes one or two

Buffy_04364: Douglas and others suggest if you are thinking, money, hope, wish, anything but what the market is telling you, to exit the trade

Buffy_04364: it does not have your full focus

tradethewave: yes, but how I can think others

zenstar: pm - I have also tried to win it back - unsuccessfully

pmtrader: it does seem that if you're looking at the p&l versus the chart you are toast

Buffy_04364: yes brad, go back over the charts with your favorite setup

Buffy_04364: if you waited for it each time how would you do?

Buffy_04364: bet you would do fine

Brad26268: I would do fine. Hardest thing for me is PATIENCE!

pmtrader: I see a high correlation between "winning it back" and not trading the setups with discipline

elroch: I got into a habit of winning money back at the end of the session. Then once I tried it with a fair sized trade and it doubled my loss.

Buffy_04364: totally agree with that one pmtrader

Buffy_04364: you are focused on getting the money back and not on what the market is telling you.

Brad26268: This is the only business I have been in where you have to wait to make money, I am used to being proactive

Buffy_04364: you will see what you want to see to be right

Lightfoot500: Buffy were you distracted yesterday by phone calls? you mentioned yesterday wasn't a good day. was it the market or some distraction

pmtrader: right

elroch: discipline, attention to detail, detachedness, caution are all good things

Buffy_04364: combination of both lightfoot

Lightfoot500: k

pmtrader: the proactive business analogy is a good one

Buffy_04364: the market was hard for many as many of the TF did not agree and no follow through when they did

elroch: I think the market was quite difficult yesterday (slow and mostly sideways)

pmtrader: "regular" business rarely rewards those who are very defensive .

Buffy_04364: patience was a very hard one for me also

Lightfoot500: I like to look at not only what will make me succeed at something like this But More importantly for me I am looking at what will TRIP me UP, you know

Buffy_04364: and I am still apt to jump the gun on a trade

Buffy_04364: but working on it

p_8: elroch, "hard market" or "easy market" is relative. It all depends on the trading system.

Brad26268: I still find a fine line between going to soon and missing it, especially on the 1 or 2 min timeframe

Brad26268: learned long ago don't chase it

Buffy_04364: some say they earn themselves a good size check for a few days and then give it back

elroch: I think it's best to concentrate on the ratio of points won to lost rather than the net points won

Buffy_04364: some of the ways traders get around this are to move 1/2 of their profits out of their trading account

Buffy_04364: give their spouse a check for 1/2 the profits

Buffy_04364: and I am sure there are others

Buffy_04364: this "locks in" your paycheck so to speak

elroch: Brad26268 - are you interested in sharing your methods with the group at some time?

pmtrader: yes - my spouse is wondering when the check will arrive

irod29: lol pm

Buffy_04364: it also rewards you for not having a losing day.

Buffy_04364: now if you didn't have a losing day because you followed your trading rules it really deserves to be rewarded

Buffy_04364: any questions at this point?

elroch: There was a series of articles in a UK broadsheet newspaper about a guy who left his job, sold his house and lost for almost two years before he turned it around. I think it turned out well in the end, but I wouldn't jump in such deep water myself

pmtrader: with respect to goals ..

pmtrader: have we covered the range?

pmtrader: in other words

Richard_: you gotta start somehow

elroch: Goal 1: learn how to trade

pmtrader: we have hit on physical environment

pmtrader: profit objectives

elroch: Goal 2: trade consistently

pmtrader: discipline

Buffy_04364: neither would I but some traders have to lose all or almost all to realize that they are the answer and solely responsible for putting money into their pocket or giving it away

Brad26268: sure elroch

elroch: Goal 3: yacht with GPS navigation

pmtrader: are there other classes of issues that "should be addressed" such as drawdowns

pmtrader: trading frequency

Buffy_04364: LOL doesn't hurt to have those big goals in mind for sure

google_2: here's what I think

pmtrader: anything else that a complete plan should have

Buffy_04364: that is under trading plan

esseh: lol

p_8: It took the legendary Marty Schwartz 10 years before he made money in trading. He became a profitable after he decided to go for it full time.

Lizaaaa: el worked on and working on all three goals :-)

Buffy_04364: we are only done with goals and what makes you comfortable physically

Buffy_04364: and moving forward

Buffy_04364: go ahead google

elroch: Good for you Lizaaaa

google_2: 1)discipline leads to 2)consistency leads to 3) confidence leads to 4) profits/etc.

Buffy_04364: what a great summary of it all

Buffy_04364: tks

Brad26268: I was just reading Schwartz book this weekend (again) and I know he trades real size, and was surprised to read he is often in and out of his trades in 5 minutes or less.

Brad26268: Makes me feel better, I too like ringing the cash register, opposed to sitting in position all day

elroch: Has anyone else tried to trade part time (of course this is difficult for US traders unless you want to trade early morning in Europe or night in Japan!)

p_8: Trader vic: Goal should be: 1- preservation of capital 2- Consistent profit 3-Superior return, in that order

Buffy_04364: If that is your comfort zone brad then that is what you should do

pmtrader: I like that google

google_2: my mentor told me be disciplined and consistent

google_2: everything else will fall in place

google_2: objective is "confidence"

Brad26268: I'm really looking forward to your book google, it should be good

pmtrader: you can't make profit unless you are consistent enough to tune and improve your technique which you can never do without discipline

time frame. Many small risk trades with high leverage.

google_2: and that only happens when one does the same thing over and over again

google_2: he had a great analogy

google_2: telling me

google_2: that surfers don't jump on every wave

google_2: they keep waiting for the big one

tradethewave: buffy, have you had a mentor on your side, when you have tried to reach your goals?

google_2: and often abandon the shallow ones

tradethewave: buffy, have you had a mentor on your side, when you have tried to reach your goals?

google_2: and often abandon the shallow ones

tradethewave: or have you learned through your mistakes on your trading?

Brad26268: Let me know if you need someone to proof-read your book google :-)

p_8: good one, google

google_2: sure brad :-)

google_2: appreciate all the help I can get

google_2: thank you again

Buffy_04364: no one at my side per say but some really good traders I could ask questions of

pmtrader: mentoring seems important

google_2: pmtrader

google_2: believe it or not

google_2: didn't pick up much technical mentoring

Buffy_04364: lots of books in the bookcase too :-)

pmtrader: I liken this business to trying to locate the two slot machines out of 1000 that have positive return in a casino

google_2: as much as I picked up "discipline" from him

elroch: Is it necessary to develop your own system, or is it possible to faithfully follow an established system?

pmtrader: you're likely to loose all your money before you find them

google_2: traded 3 humps and 2 humps like forever

pmtrader: and if you switch from machine to machine you will NEVER find them

Brad26268: humps?

Buffy_04364: it is necessary to find a pattern/setup that you recognize and trade well

Buffy_04364: also called 3 little Indians and 3 hills

elroch: I like the surfer analogy. Avoiding those risky little moves sounds good.

tradethewave: you mean master them, buffy?

pmtrader: did you find positive expectancy in the humps strategies?

Lightfoot500: Can't learn to ski with out falling down...

Buffy_04364: with ensign and simbroker you should be able to find the one that you get right a high percentage of the time

Buffy_04364: yes one setup at a time

elroch: What on earth are these hills, humps and indians?

Lizaaaa: :)

tradethewave: oh, one time it would break my neck ..lightfoot

Buffy_04364: part of your trading rules might be so many sessions on

simbroker doing a new setup that has to be profitable trading that setup only

elroch: Is someone storing this transcript - Paltalk has just thrown most of mine away.

pmtrader: thus far I have found positive results only when focusing on one setup

google_2: agree w/pm

tradethewave: how many days can I simulate in ensign?

Richard_: report paltalk bugs to: bugs@paltalk.com

pmtrader: I was never able to achieve any discipline at all until I focused on only one

p_8: Lightfoot, yep, "JUST DO IT", take it easy, wear the good proverbial Helmet and knee pads so that you don't get killed while learning

Buffy_04364: can also use papertrading to check yourself out on a new setup before using your hard earned cash

google_2: good point buffy

google_2: papertrading is important despite what one hears

esseh: I have some but came in late elroch and got bounced too

pmtrader: if not for simbroker I would have blow at least one if not 2x my intended trading capital by now

Buffy_04364: I am saving

Buffy_04364: will send to Dave to post

scorp: thanks Buffy!

google_2: tennis champions practice their winning shots off court

google_2: and we do the same thing w/papertrading

google_2: same concept

Buffy_04364: get to know the setup as well as you can

elroch: I find with paper trading that I can't stick at it long enough before I want to trade and find things don't always work as well

google_2: there're different techniques

Lizaaaa: I papered for 5 months after I opened my daytrading account, once I realized I wasn't ready to trade

elroch: Thanks pmtrader

Buffy_04364: then when you use the setup with real cash you are not thinking of the rules of the setup you are thinking of managing the trade

Lizaaaa: had too

irod29: I'm in that stage lizaa

Lizaaaa: irod, It was the best thing for me

Richard_: liza's been papertrading for the last 10 years.

google_2: one technique involves measuring discipline vs. points

irod29: after losing some bucks I might add:(

google_2: I give myself 1 point if I take my setup

Lizaaaa: I have not Richard

irod29: good , thanx

Richard_: :-)

google_2: and take away another 1 if I deviate from that

Lizaaaa: looked at my first intraday chart 13 months ago

Brad26268: How you doing now Lizaaa- you have real patience!

elroch: I resolve to systematically paper trade.

elroch: Money can come later

Buffy_04364: I can see where that would work google

Buffy_04364: direct feedback on if you followed your rules or not

google_2: it works

google_2: shifts the focus from money/trading

pmtrader: the $200 per month overhead to paper trade( not including life bills) is pocket change compared to blowing out an account

google_2: to consistency

elroch: Buffy, did you paper trade when you were learning?

google_2: and discipline

Lizaaaa: I lost 2 hundred bucks and stopped dead in my tracks...and now trading again, small shares, mostly consistent positive trades

p_8: you will never make money in the market if you don't make money paper trading, but if you make money paper trading, winning in the market is not guaranteed either. The mind and emotions are always ready to derail trading.

Buffy_04364: yes I used the pfg best simulator - no simbroker back then

elroch: Excellent Lizaaa

Buffy_04364: only allowed myself two losers then had to go back on simulator

elroch: Good point p_8

pmtrader: I've found the emotions in the business incredible

Buffy_04364: had to have 2 winners then I could go back to real account

Buffy_04364: it worked

elroch: I find the same when I switch from small to larger stakes

Buffy_04364: wish ensign had of had playback and simbroker back then though

pmtrader: a typical daily loss is lunch money but it still make me punch drunk if I did it by breaking the rules

Buffy_04364: pd extra to keep the simulator for a couple of months extra

Lizaaaa: :) buffy

elroch: Lunch money? About 1/2 a point?

Buffy_04364: one thing I forgot to mention

Buffy_04364: breaks

pmtrader: every loss cause me to question my ability to succeed

Buffy_04364: when I was in Mike Bruns class he strongly suggested trying to take one every hour

Buffy_04364: look out a window

Buffy_04364: walk around the house

Lizaaaa: google very interesting stuff

pmtrader: I was exaggerating - I never risk more than 1% of my intended cap on a trade and my intended cap is a small % of my total net worth

Buffy_04364: you'll be surprised what you see on the charts when you get back that you didn't see before you left

coaster99: go outside and walk around the house

google_2: thanks liza

elroch: I see what you mean pm

elroch: I lost about .03% of my net worth today

google_2: I lost too today

elroch: Paper would still have been cheaper

google_2: no biggie

pmtrader: right - no big deal unless that is your average daily result!!

google_2: I still took my setups

CJACK4: me too

google_2: and won't beat myself up over it

Buffy_04364: right losses are part of the job

Buffy_04364: not to be taken personally

saffani: can anyone give me the address where I can download simbroker?? please?

Brad26268: How long did it take google to get to that point- of not letting it get to you very much?

Buffy_04364: I try to look at each trade of day as the first one of the day

google_2: ok, here's some pointers I use to measure my performance

pmtrader: www.ensignsoftware.com

pd123: its part of ensign

Buffy_04364: that helps me remove any negativity from a prior trade

google_2: when in a trend

saffani: ok thanks

google_2: I'd like to see my trades 3:1 with the trend

google_2: so example

google_2: if trend is to the long side

google_2: I'd like to see my statement reflect 3 on the long side

google_2: and 1 to the short side

google_2: also

pmtrader: google you mean when you look back at the end of the day?

pmtrader: mean

elroch: Why not all?

google_2: I like to see 1.25 in terms of W/L

google_2: and Avg. W/Avg. L

google_2: if I can maintain 1.25 on both

pmtrader: 1.25 size or trade count?

google_2: then I know I'm ok

google_2: in terms of profits

google_2: 1.25 on AW/AL

google_2: tells m

google_2: e

elroch: Total win$ / total loss$ is the most important, I think.

pmtrader: aw$/al$

google_2: that I'm cutting my losers short

google_2: and letting my winners run

pmtrader: a 1.25 ratio requires very close to 50/50 trading

google_2: elroch, it's average winner/average loser

google_2: that's a very important stat.

google_2: very challenging too

google_2: and requires to let winners run

google_2: and cut loser short

google_2: geez, I just repeated myself lol

google_2: anyway

elroch: I see, so > 3:2 in terms of total dollars?

elroch: I don't think it matters much if you have a few bigger losses or a larger number of small losses.

google_2: it's the total $ amount/ total # of winners

elroch: But I prefer the latter

Buffy_04364: the big losses can create a lot of problems to overcome

google_2: then total $ of losers/total # of losers

Buffy_04364: IMO

google_2: try that

Brad26268: google, when you let the winners run, is that with your whole position, or do you take part off to lock in some profits, and trail stop on remainder?

google_2: if one can track this 1.25 ratio for a week, you'll see that it keeps one on the right track

google_2: brad, v. good question

google_2: ideal position is 3

google_2: meaning

google_2: 1/3 to cover cost

google_2: then 2/3 to aim at 2 objectives

google_2: and overhead

google_2: so after covering cost

google_2: I like to set primary target

google_2: and secondary target

google_2: this way I'm not missing out on a good trade

google_2: if it starts going against me, I set stop at b/e in worst case scenario

google_2: for many I understand, the case might be 2

google_2: and another to let it run

elroch: Might I take the liberty of inviting Jimmer to put his views forward, as I know he achieves impressive statistics?

google_2: so 1 to cover OH

google_2: and that's what I do when I trade 2

Brad26268: Yes, I have learned, the hard way (only way I learn anything) that 2 contracts is safer than 1, since trade is usually good for a little while

Buffy_04364: he sure does and all in all out is what works for him and it is what I do also

Buffy_04364: jimmer?

jimmer49: all in all out is what I do

jimmer49: either I like it or I don't

jimmer49: matter of personality imo

Buffy_04364: each needs to find the way that is in their comfort zone

Buffy_04364: especially when starting out

Buffy_04364: IMO

pmtrader: I think if one is scalping then all in / all out and a high winning % of trades is a must

elroch: I think you should always be comfortable with anticipated losses if things go wrong, or it can lead to loss of discipline.

pmtrader: not to argue

pmtrader: its a matter of trading style

elroch: I remember setting stops too tight when I started trading in a different market. False economy, sometimes.

Buffy_04364: agree pm right along with keeping losses real small

Richard_: Expect to lose. But do it well.

Buffy_04364: you don't pm but those little trades add up

pmtrader: right - thus the requirement for a reasonably high winning %

google_2: even with 20/30 trades

Buffy_04364: that was a fast hour for sure

Buffy_04364: next week would like to get into the trading part of your trading plan more

google_2: one will need a big one once in a while to carry the smaller losses

google_2: high number of trades = higher stress level; higher cost

esseh: that's what happens when u talk about interesting things....

pmtrader: higher chances of dropping the ball for me personally

jimmer49: disagree about higher stress level

elroch: Not sure about that google. Fewer trades usually means allowing more downside on each => more stress

Buffy_04364: I find google that a high number of trades keeps it more robot for me

Buffy_04364: and more automatic

google_2: I guess we all have different styles

google_2: :-)

Richard_: Traders have different `metabolisms', some need to scalp, some need to trend trade.

google_2: was referring to me

Buffy_04364: yep it is that comfort zone thing again

Buffy_04364: oh ok

pmtrader: not more downside - just few trades and a strategy that lets winners run reeeaall long

google_2: I can't trade every twist and turn of the market

jimmer49: being in a trade for an hour is agony for me - making 2 point in 5 min is easier on me

google_2: but that's my style

irod29: me 2 jimmer

pmtrader: for me the stress comes from losing discipline which I'm more likely to do in a rapid fire environment

Richard_: How many trades today, jimmer?

Buffy_04364: the room knows how I hated being in a short today that seemed to take forever to go

elroch: I have successfully traded every corner some days (>15 in one hour), but it needs to be very lively to pay.

pmtrader: but that's because I'm just note there yet - when I arrive there will be no loss of discipline

jimmer49: 13 Richard, but 1/2 day today for me

google_2: also

google_2: another stat. I like

Richard_: cool, which half?

jimmer49: pm

Richard_: cool

google_2: is if my broker got >25% of total winnings as commissions

google_2: then I know I overtraded

Buffy_04364: any Band-Aids today jimmer?

google_2: all these things I like to keep track of

google_2: and the rest will take care of itself

Buffy_04364: I had a

elroch: google - are you including the spread? Do you use IB?

Buffy_04364: .5 and 1 pt one

jimmer49: not a one Buffy

Buffy_04364: :-)

Buffy_04364: didn't think so

google_2: elroch, no IB

jimmer49: was almost a zone day for me

Buffy_04364: those are so great when they happen

irod29: hope I can reach that point some day:)

elroch: Might be easier to keep the ratio down with $2.50 commissions

Buffy_04364: yours are getting closer together aren't they jimmer?

jimmer49: still rare though

Richard_: today was a pretty crummy day ... a zone day? wow!

jimmer49: yesterday not even close

pmtrader: yesterday was tough

elroch: I guess a Band-Aid is a minor loss?

Buffy_04364: yes but the last one was only a few weeks ago and not over a month like before if I remember right

Buffy_04364: yes elroch

Buffy_04364: this has been great everyone and I want to thank all of you for your input today

pmtrader: thank you for hosting - and all for contributing

Richard_: Band-Aid is when the successful trader has super-models come over and soothe his boo boos.

Buffy_04364: we will start out with a Q&A next week and then go forward with a further discussion of the trading plan

irod29: its my first Tuesday chat here and wow, I've learned in one afternoon a lot that will help me, thanx to all

elroch: I think mine total to a flesh wound

CJACK4: enjoyed it Buffy and learned some too.

elroch: Thanks Buffy and everyone

google_2: thanks for moderating buffy

google_2: have a nice evening everyone

jimmer49: Nice session Buffy - thanks.

js1257: thanx Buffy good discussion

elroch: I liked the points on paper trading and targets

elroch: Sounds good

Lightfoot500: Tanks , Buffy

google_2: buffy

google_2: I can't hear you for some reason

google_2: but someone told me you asked about my book

google_2: a lot of things still need to be ironed out

google_2: but as far as material is concerned it's about 90%

google_2: thanks for asking

google_2: :-)

Buffy_04364: yes I asked how it was going and said looking forward to it

pd123: what time will it be ready google?? lol

google_2: thanks :-)

Buffy_04364: yes I asked how it was going and said looking forward to it

pd123: what time will it be ready google?? lol

google_2: thanks :-)

google_2: targeting end of Sept.

Lightfoot500: I want mine autographed, Google

google_2: you got it :-)

CJACK4: do we here get to read an advance copy so we can pile on the endorsements and cause you to sell lots more books??

Lizaaaa: I want mine with diagrams

google_2: let me get something out of the way here lol

google_2: I don't need to sell a book

google_2: I'm happy with what I'm doing now

Lightfoot500: A special early release for NQ/ESers

google_2: lol

CJACK4: Then I can write "How I made my fortune by reading Google"

google_2: one title I strongly considered

google_2: "anyone can profitable after 1 week!"

google_2: not because of the book

Buffy_04364: are you still going to pick a few titles and take a vote

Buffy_04364: ?

google_2: but because of the techniques that instill discipline

google_2: yes buffy

google_2: I prefer that

google_2: as a matter of fact I compiled all the emails

google_2: and feedback

google_2: re title

pmtrader: I have a question for any high freq traders about w/l % if anyone is up for it

pmtrader: it would seem that cutting losses needs to be taken to an extreme as in a couple ticks at the most

Buffy_04364: if that is an extreme for you pm than scalping might not be in your comfort zone

pmtrader: I only call it extreme in the sense of its relation to the ATR

pmtrader: it implies pulling the plug on trades almost immediately if they don't spurt in your direction

pmtrader: trying to get a feel for how you guys survive and make the numbers work

Buffy_04364: or getting out when profitable on a candle pattern

pmtrader: its what attracted me to the room in the first place but there is clearly something I haven't yet figured out

jimmer49: pmtrader - they key is taking good setups where the risk is predefined and low and then maintaining discipline to manage the trade

google_2: jimmer, great point

Buffy_04364: words of wisdom for whatever style you use really

google_2: re trading plan

google_2: let me add 1 thing here

p_8: "Know thyself" (Know your own personality and trading style)

google_2: or 2 for that mattter

google_2: :P

google_2: there're 2 types of plans

google_2: business plan

google_2: and trading plan

pmtrader: good setups being ones with >50% chance of never hitting your stop in the first place and managing the trade being - knowing when to pull the plug?

google_2: biz plan encompass the macro side

google_2: like how much capital

google_2: overhead costs

google_2: overall objectives

google_2: monthly, annually

google_2: etc.

google_2: trading plan is on the micro level

google_2: discusses how one will achieve objectives set in the biz plan

google_2: a trading plan can't be put together

jimmer49: pmtrader - that is pretty much it, but prefer about 70%

google_2: unless method is tested

google_2: papertraded

google_2: proven

google_2: documented

pmtrader: 70% is an impressive number - having hung out here for nearly 6 months I have no doubt that you do it

google_2: can provide more details on each of those 2

google_2: if there's enough interest

Buffy_04364: I believe he had no Band-Aids today on 16 trades right jimmer?

Buffy_04364: go ahead google

Buffy_04364: will include in transcript

google_2: there's also a myth about not setting $ goals

pd123: pls

google_2: $ goals are important

jimmer49: high winning % is very important these days when follow through on most moves is so poor

google_2: they don't have to be daily

google_2: but on a monthly basis is important

google_2: it's a business

pmtrader: I've noticed

google_2: and one needs to know

google_2: what's the performance

google_2: is there improvement or not

google_2: this month I made 1k

google_2: then next month I want to shoot for 20% improvement

google_2: and that certainly will impact how the trading plan is formulated

pmtrader: I clearly need to focus - I'll be reading The Disciplined trader next week

google_2: and strategies to achieve that

pmtrader: I hope it helps

google_2: whether it's by increasing size

Buffy_04364: it will

pmtrader: it comes highly recommended

google_2: or by having a different strategy

jimmer49: pmtrader - keep a highlighter handy when you read it - many real gems in there

Buffy_04364: jimmer and I are always mentioning that book

pmtrader: my experience with discipline improving my results in the past month made me think there was something there

google_2: anyway, that was my rant

google_2: :-)

Buffy_04364: thanks google

Buffy_04364: appreciate it

Lizaaaa: I have

Lizaaaa: and thank you all

pd123: I have too

pmtrader: see ya